Curse

The Josip · Jul 07, 2010, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

From all I've read, ER can make an overpowered healer/bonder, but that's it.

How can debate like this.

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Originally Posted by Higher Minion

Need I remind you Anet realised the error of their ways and decided it was time to make mesmers overpowered also?

8 skills for general PvE please.

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It's only overpowered if the player knows how to use it properly, and likes mindless spam-support builds. I don't think alot of people do, to be honest.

It's overpowered if you have a hero AI. If you are smarter than a hero, it's even more overpowered.

pterodactyl · Jul 07, 2010, 05:13 PM // 17:13

no nerf needed.

the skill is used in a build that still requires tact and work to be successful. the whole point of this game is to find unique uses for skills. in this case, energy management is used to heal. it is by no means moving monks out of their station as main healer. i do not see a problem here.

Steps_Descending · Jul 07, 2010, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Meh, I'm split on ER:
-Infuse spam I don't mind, because it has some pretty glaring flaws that mobs can capitalize on. As soon as ER is down, the build becomes useless.
- Maintaining 16 bonds and tanking in the UW is something I have a problem with. If Anet would give burning speed a 3 second recharge, the bonding would stop.

For now, keep it as it is.

Ironically, the oposite is bugging me. Seeing an ele having a full monk bar (safe for 2 support skills who aren't cast often), I can't stand.

But seeing the same bar with flare to keep the energy up for the bonds, I don't mind. which would probably happen if ER was made to work with ele skill only.
Flare spam with a prot thrown in for the flavor, rest is bonds.

As some people mentionned, Er isn,t rally OP. B ut that doesn't mean it's fine or can't use a tweaking, just that it isn't worth destroying.

Painbringer · Jul 07, 2010, 05:46 PM // 17:46

To me its PVE ... nuf said

HigherMinion · Jul 07, 2010, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

How can debate like this.
8 skills for general PvE please.
It's overpowered if you have a hero AI. If you are smarter than a hero, it's even more overpowered.

How can you debate like this? Are you going to keep repeating the same nonsense, when you've even been spoon-fed a great working mesmer build for general PvE?

ER is overpowered if you have hero AI? I think not, they're actually pretty terrible at a. Spamming and b. Maintaining ER during fights. also c. not spamming their enchants on themselves, stripping is even more of an issue.

I actually prefer a monk or necro hero.

Day Trooper · Jul 07, 2010, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Yes Ether Renewal is a strong skill - but it is an elite skill after all. Plus it's hardly used 'by the masses' and is definitely not replacing the functionality of monks from what I can tell.

Also, besides the ER bonder role in pug UWSCs (1 person in a party of eight), what other elite areas are ER eles being used?

Not to mention the fact that Ether Renewal can easily be stripped...

Hopefully the majority here (around 71% currently) will be heard and ANet won't nerf Ether Renewal. If so, then let's also nerf Shadow Form (again), 600/smite (again), SoS Spirit Spam, DWG, PVE skills, etc., etc....

-DT

NerfHerder · Jul 07, 2010, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

I dont know... it seems to me as though elemental attunement would still be the better choice for skills like this. The problem is that there are several elementalist energy management elites. In my opinion, ether renewal (in addition to ether prodigy) need functionality changes.

I know what you mean. Several energy management skills should get functionality changes. Elemental Attunement should give you an attribute bonus or health gain and Ether Prodigy should be like an elite form of Energy Blast(just a thought). Obviously, Ether Renewal is superior because with only three enchantments, you gain energy on spells less than 15e(not to mention at least 60 health). But then again, I think alot of Ele skills could use some tweaking. I like the idea of ER being tied to Ele skills more and more. If you give Burning Speed a small nerf, the only way to maintain energy would be skills like Flare or Stone Daggers. That would cause an E/Mo ER to have to come in close range of foes to maintain energy, which makes them more likely to be under fire or stripped.

Also, all of the QQ about ER comes from ER Prot/Orders. A functionality change to being triggered on Ele Skills, would be like how they changed SF. It would still be usable but not as powerful. I personally dont see the big deal for a nerf. I think the current poll reflects what people really think. I dont love it, but I dont think it needs a total nerf.

Kosar The Cruel · Jul 07, 2010, 07:38 PM // 19:38

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Originally Posted by Chthon

No, SF is the reason speed clears are still around. UW is the only speed clear that uses an ER ele, and he's only there to deal with Dhuum. Nerfing SF, for real this time, is the only way speed clears can ever be killed and made to stay dead.

Thank you for the correction.

I wouldn't nerf ER eles then b/c it is a fun and different option for eles.

Age · Jul 08, 2010, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Pretty strong, and although i don't actually give a shit, i do think it's lame that eles can outheal monks, but hey, they have to be useful somehow right?

I would say go for it.There is no way an Ele can out heal a Monk if you knew anything about the class if so then you would see them being used in tournaments.

Jeydra · Jul 08, 2010, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I would say go for it.There is no way an Ele can out heal a Monk if you knew anything about the class if so then you would see them being used in tournaments.

Age isn't done trolling ER Eles rofl.

Anyway - I'm against nerfing ER until some of the other, more glaring imbalances are fixed first. ER is a defensive build after all. Nuke Shadow Form to the ground (just merge the PvE version with the PvP one), nerf physical damage, and then worry about nerfing ER.

The Josip · Jul 08, 2010, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

How can you debate like this? Are you going to keep repeating the same nonsense

Please, you claim that ER is not overpowered unless a genius plays it, and then it deserves to be overpowered.

Come on it's vastly and ridiculously overpowered skill even when you're not using it to full potential.

I'm not going to debate obvious things here. You like imbalance, especially since you use it. That's you. I prefer balance. I don't like imbalance even when it favors me. You can go on and on protecting your favorite overpowered builds and playstyles, but it won't change the fact they are overpowered.

Jeydra · Jul 08, 2010, 02:29 AM // 02:29

@above - you're missing the point. Don't bring up strawman arguments because HigherMinion hasn't said anything about ER not being overpowered. Read it carefully. He said how heroes use ER badly, offered reasons and said he prefers Monks / Necros to ER heroes. Then re-examine your post.

Age · Jul 08, 2010, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Age isn't done trolling ER Eles rofl.

Anyway - I'm against nerfing ER until some of the other, more glaring imbalances are fixed first. ER is a defensive build after all. Nuke Shadow Form to the ground (just merge the PvE version with the PvP one), nerf physical damage, and then worry about nerfing ER.

Who says I am trolling if you knew what ones is I am making valid point.You know squat about me on these boards.

HigherMinion · Jul 08, 2010, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Who says I am trolling if you knew what ones is I am making valid point.You know squat about me on these boards.

ER Isn't used in PvP. It lasts 7 seconds and still has the same cooldown as PvE. People who just want to nerf it because monks should be the unique healers of the game are silly. Why would Anet plant Restoring on Ritualists and healing support on paragon? For that matter, Blood Bond in it's current overpowered state is mad.

NERF THEM ALL I SAY, TO OBLIVION!111

Basically, if ER is nerfed because it's better than a monk, everything listed above needs a good seeing to.

jimbo32 · Jul 08, 2010, 09:18 AM // 09:18

In my opinion, the reason why ER seems so beefy in this instance isn't necessarily due to the skill itself. The problem lies with the relatively (as compared to an Ele) poor energy management of the Monk class. Using the ER Prot Hero build as an example, even without ER, the Ele could pretty much spam prots through most any fight (80+ energy @ 14 ES w/ staff). A monk with a similar bar would likely run into trouble - four 10en prots would kill their blue bar in a hurry (~40en or so).

It's my opinion that until monks get some sort of class-innate energy management, we'll continue to see builds like the ER infuser. It's popular for the same reason that the N/Rt SoLS healer is a PvE staple - it blows the energy management of your average monk to hell.

Divine Favor needs some sort of energy return functionality imo. Maybe something that reacts with maintained enchants, or something that functions sorta like Leadership does for Paras - X energy returned for each ally affected by a given spell (meaning Divine Healing or Aegis-type spells would provide energy gain). *shrug*

reaper with no name · Jul 08, 2010, 09:33 AM // 09:33

ER is overpowered, but it's all Eles have. Nerfing it would be like nerfing HB, WA, DS, SY, WE, and every decent Hammer skill all at the same time. To nerf ER is to nerf the entire Elementalist class.

HigherMinion · Jul 08, 2010, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo32

In my opinion, the reason why ER seems so beefy in this instance isn't necessarily due to the skill itself. The problem lies with the relatively (as compared to an Ele) poor energy management of the Monk class. Using the ER Prot Hero build as an example, even without ER, the Ele could pretty much spam prots through most any fight (80+ energy @ 14 ES w/ staff). A monk with a similar bar would likely run into trouble - four 10en prots would kill their blue bar in a hurry (~40en or so).

It's my opinion that until monks get some sort of class-innate energy management, we'll continue to see builds like the ER infuser. It's popular for the same reason that the N/Rt SoLS healer is a PvE staple - it blows the energy management of your average monk to hell.

Divine Favor needs some sort of energy return functionality imo. Maybe something that reacts with maintained enchants, or something that functions sorta like Leadership does for Paras - X energy returned for each ally affected by a given spell (meaning Divine Healing or Aegis-type spells would provide energy gain). *shrug*

I agree completely with this. Something other than PvE skills need to grant decent and consistent energy maintainment.

What have they got at the moment? Auspicious Incantation, perhaps. Glyph of Lesser Energy, Selfless Spirit, Assassin's Promise sort of.

Selfless was the best way to go until it was immediately nerfed, because monks got too overpowered, for some reason. Odd they nerfed that and nothing to damage the ER infuse/bonder... What's their game?

Desert Rose · Jul 08, 2010, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo32

It's my opinion that until monks get some sort of class-innate energy management, we'll continue to see builds like the ER infuser. It's popular for the same reason that the N/Rt SoLS healer is a PvE staple - it blows the energy management of your average monk to hell.

There's a big difference between builds like N/Rt healers or hero ER monks and ER monk builds for humans. The former are easier to play since you don't have to watch your energy that much, but in the hands of an at least decent players primary monks or ritus are still stronger; they are popular because you don't need to be good to use them well, that makes them perfect for heroes.
Builds like the ER infuser are in a whole different league; only in very few areas and teambuilds a primary monk would perform better than an ER infuser even when controlled by a good player.

Smith23 · Jul 08, 2010, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Your trying to get rid of one of the only good Elementalist skill. Aura of Restoration is a non elite skill that provides better healing, while Ether Renewal is just a little better at giving you energy. Using them both might make it look a little overpowered but a Elementalist in HM needs all the help they can get, do to every creature having a large amount of armor against fire, cold, earth and air magic.

Lanier · Jul 08, 2010, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Heroes actually use ER builds very, very well. I prefer an ER protter to a hero prot monk, though i would probably still stick with an HB monk for my healer as they don't tend to have energy problems.